JazzEast Executive Director Heather Gibson says she had the Dr. John crowd under control, Peter Barss says there was no crowd control
Dr. John, heard but not seen in Halifax (photo La Presse)
The controversy over the rowdy crowd, or not, at the Dr. John Festival heats up as a fan says his wife was pushed by a drunk and beer spilled on his camera gear.
“We’re STILL getting emails and calls about crowds, sound and seating @HFXJazzFest. We’ll play more after sports. Stay tuned! #cbcns” CBC Information Morning posted today.
Heather Gibson, the Executive Director and head honcho at the TD Halifax Jazz Festival, is unimpressed by complaints. She told CBC Information Morning, “There was dancing but not a lack of crowd control or safety issue at the Dr. John Show” We have the CBC below recording.
Heather Gibson, Executive Director Jazz East (Chronicle Herald Photo)
After hearing Gibson’s response on CBC Radio, long time jazz blues fan and photographer Peter Barss gave this response on CBC radio.
“In reference to complaints about the Dr. John
“Like most people in the tent my wife Myra and I stepped outside to get a breath of fresh air during the intermission between Erin Costello’s performance and Dr. John’s.”
“When we returned to our front row seats the area between the seats and the stage was filled with a shoulder to shoulder crowd of mostly young people many with beer in hand and many already drunk.”
“Myra was pushed three times and nearly knocked over. One man staggered backwards and spilled his beer on my camera bag which contained several thousand dollars worth of gear. There were no apologies.”
“In fact, when I told this guy that he had spilled bear on my camera bag he told me to “deal with it.””
Peter Barss says no crowd control
“Just as Dr. John started his set I pushed my way out of the crowd and found one of Heather Gibson’s security men. I asked him if he could have the crowd moved. His reply: “I can’t do anything about it. They can stand if they want to.””
“In addition to their rudeness, the people in the crowd blocked the view of the stage. When I stood on my tiptoes I occasionally saw the top of Dr. John’s head. Myra could not see the stage at all.”
“About half way through Dr. John’s third song we left in frustration and anger. Many other people near us were also outraged and many of them left when we did.”
“Heather Gibson said there was “no lack of crowd control.” Nothing could be further from the truth. There was absolutely no crowd control.”
“The solution is not rocket science. Someone, probably MC Louise Renault, could have been asked to tell the people crowding the stage to leave that area so that people sitting could see. Two or three members of the Heather Gibson security patrol could have kept them out.”
“As it was, many people who paid the thirty dollars admission fee saw very little of Dr. John but had a very good view of a bunch of drunks waving cups of beer in the air.”
To which we say, c’mon Heather. You’re not going to stonewall your way out of this one.
CBC Information Morning interview on July 10, 2013 CBC Information Morning Dr John show S Pate
Jazz East Executive Director Heather Gibson’s response CBC Information Morning Dr John show – H Gibson
jenochej
This is a joke, right? Have you never been to a festival before? You go to a festival, people are going to stand (heck– even dance! Imagine!) during the concerts– that’s standard across the board. If you’re short, you get close to the front or you accept that you’re not going to see the stage very well.
Getting bumped a couple times or having a beer spilled, while annoying, is hardly “absolutely no crowd control”. You’re not at a theatre, you’re at an outdoor festival. If you want to sit quietly and watch the music, go to a listening room or a theatre show, don’t go to a festival.
Elonwy
Maybe the bunch of whiners who go to a concert to sit there and do nothing should stay home on their couch and let the people that get up, enjoy the music and dance be at the show. I guarantee the musicians on stage would rather have the people up drinking and dancing then a bunch of people sitting in chairs doing golf claps between sets.
Stay home Peter Barss and baby your camera, complain about people having fun and don’t go in public. My thousands of dollars worth of camera gear have survived plenty of festivals and I don’t whine if people around me are having fun. Trust me, the musicians don’t want you there, the people that enjoy music don’t want you there and the organizers don’t want you there.
You seem like the old guy in his underwear who runs out on his porch yelling at everyone that walks past his house to stay off his lawn.
avery
Oh c’mon……is this guy serious?!? I was at this show and it did my heart good to see so many young people enjoying Dr. John, who was popular when I was young. If you want to sit with a docile crowd and do nothing but clap politely, go to the symphony……or pick another, quieter jazz venue featuring a quartet or something. To expect security to clear the dance floor is ridiculous. Party on, youngins!
Joebob
Harden up mate – you’re at a concert.
Peter Barss
It’s interesting to note that no one self-centered enough to believe they have the right to ruin a concert for others has the courage to post their comments with their real and full names. Be that as it may, I get it now. The rules for having fun at a concert are as follows: 1. Get drunk and wave cups of beer over your head. Spill beer on each other and on people you don’t know. 2. Get as close to the stage as you can and stand up. Block the view for the rest of the audience. If you’re new at this and a little nervous, stand in front of people in wheelchairs because they are less likely to punch you. 3. Push people, especially women because, like the people in wheelchairs, they are less likely to retaliate. Above all assert your arrogance and self-importance. Remember–you are special and you are entitled. The concert is for you and you alone. You are that important. Rock on.
jenochej
Dude, you need to lighten up. And probably quit saying that your wife was “pushed”, unless someone purposely and specifically set out to push her– from everything I’ve read it seems she was “bumped into”. Big difference, mate.
It’s interesting that you speak as if people are *required* to do any of these things in order to have fun… it shows, yet again, how completely uptight you are about this whole thing. The point you’re failing to see is that these people were having fun at the concert because they were free to enjoy it without being given strict instructions to sit/stand/act a certain way by some guy who wants them to do exactly what will make the concert best for him. You’re in control of your own actions– if you’re not enjoying the concert, find a way to enjoy it or don’t be there. Don’t expect an entire audience to bow to your specific demands.
Oh, and this is my real name and real picture. So.
Ryan Champion
Hi Peter,
I can understand your frustration caused by your experience at this festival, however, from the way you ended your paragraph, are you not reflecting that exact behaviour, at least to a point?
“Above all assert your arrogance and self-importance. Remember–you are
special and you are entitled. The concert is for you and you alone. You
are that important.”
Music festivals are places for people to go and enjoy music, get together, and have fun. It’s unfortunate that not everyone can get along in a respectful way, at the very least whoever bumped into you and your wife should have had the courtesy to appologize. However music is meant to be danced to, and having a crowd of people dance in front of the stage is not the lack of crowd control. You do not have any more right than anyone else who paid to attend to get front row viewing. Crowd control comes into play when a fight breaks out, or an emergency, and the crowd has to be controlled. There was no unavoidable danger, thus no actions were needed to be taken past keeping a close eye on things (which should be the case all the time anyways).
You can not fault the festival itself or it’s organizers. If it was a constant thing and if people were getting hurt / injured, then it would warrent holding them responsible, however a few accidental bumps or spilled drinks is bound to happen anywhere there is drinking and dancing going on.
Again, I am not saying that your complaints aren’t warrented, nor that people can indeed be asses at times, but if this kind of scene isn’t something you enjoy, then perhaps you, or anyone, who doesn’t want to deal with these sort of things, should reconsider where they choose to enjoy their musical experiences.
Not saying that you would never be welcome at any of my shows, and I’m sure the organizers of this one would agree with me, but it’s not always going to be for everyone.
-Ryan Champion
arthurthecommonhousefly
The fact is, the demographics of “jazz festivals” has changed over the last few years in an effort to build an audience of the next generation of jazz fans. This includes booking non-traditional “jazz acts” like Dr John, etc.
To expect an audience of younger (than you) music fans to dit quietly on their hands and not enjoy themselves is just silly.
Your interpretation of what happened (people “shoving” wives, being overly intoxicated etc) is simply YOUR OPINION. As someone who was there, up front, I was in no danger at all, and noticed security squashing pot joints, calming down a couple rowdies (who complied quickly), and being very professional.
Going on the radio and attacking the director of the festival and others reflected poorly on YOU, if my timeline on Facebook, Twitter feed, and comments from people who were there are to be believed.
I’m no spring chicken, and I had a great time at the festival. Maybe more time enjoying things and less looking down your nose at younger folks having fun would help you not feel so old and out of touch with the fun person I’m guessing you possibly were before.
And a “review” on the first 5 songs of a concert?
Do you call yourself a journalist?
Stephen Pate
Thanks for you comments. There is nothing stopping a venue from appealing to different age groups. They just need to be a little more clever.
The premise that everyone goes to the crush upfront is biased against those living with disabilities, or the aged, who cannot do that. To say stay home is bigoted. Young people don’t own the world and don’t have the right to exclude anyone. To extrapolate that line of thinking would allow the festival organizers to exclude any class of society – blacks need not attend, Chinese people might be offended stay home, Muslims go home, women over 40 go home.
It’s not clear to whom the comments are addressed. The article is not a “review”. If it were, one could have commented that the sound engineer (supplied by Dr. John) did not know how to mix the sound for the venue. Most of the music I heard was not balanced and Dr. John’s voice was unclear. From my vantage point, I wondered if Dr. John had lost his touch. I checked my findings with another recording engineer and he agreed the sound was bad. He walked out earlier than I did.
Here’s Dr. John from the TD Toronto Jazz Fest
It’s nice to express opinions but ad hominem attacks are so passé. I didn’t attack Heather Gibson I just repeated what she said. If we can’t report the truth…when did that happen?
I just reported what I saw, heard and experienced and cross checked it with several people before I wrote the story up. I have nothing against “younger folks” and enjoy rock concerts full of their unbridled passion and energy. Accept that other people experience things differently. Next time, please point out the dude / dudette with the lose joints svp 🙂
Again, thanks for the comment.
Jeff Pineau
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m78jf0JPv71qzht5bo1_1280.jpg
Peter Barss
And what you don’t understand is that because of the selfishness of those who stood in front of the stage most of the rest of the audience–even if they stood–could not see the show. If you’ve been paying attention to the media you would know that there are many more people other than myself who were at the festival and who who were outraged at the arrogant rudeness of the few who chose to block their view.
Guest
“I’ve managed to find other angry people who share my views.”
Solid defence.
Peter Barss
A very good defence actually…kind of like democracy. Unfortunately democracy was not at work that night. A relative few denied the majority the right to see a show they paid to see and expected to see.
patlevy
Heard but not seen, is right!!!!
I, like Peter, was super peeved at this show. There I am, in my prime seat, best gal at my side, chicken sliders and lapkin (giant napkin for your lap), and a cool Keith’s Alexander popped up straight (though no croaster – come on Jazzfest) next to my chair. I was up late to see Dr. John and that was ok.
My b. gal was the first to notice the horde charging the gate. I’d say there were at least 15 of them at first, drunk students or some drunk crazies is more like. It I realized that we were safe because of all the security there but suddenly the crowd walked right by the security and I jumped to my feet
But it was too late they lined up in front of the stage and then nobody could see shit. My lapkin was on the ground because of my jump and my chicken sliders were scattered around. Me and b. started picking them up but then a drunk skunk stumbled up and stepped on my hand and stole a slider and said “veal with it” and I said “it’s not veal it’s chicken”
by the time Dr. John was on stage it was too late and there were probably 40 people blocking my LOS (line of sight). I was out of sliders and my Keith’s was gone drank by a skunk and I went to security and said “is there no justice” and he said “veal with it” and I fainted
I woke up several hours later in a daze, shivering in the morning dew wrapped in only my lapkin (wrapkin). my b.gal hasn’t called me since and Dr. John didn’t even show me the top’f his head worse show of my life.
Stephen Pate
I am sure the TD Bank who sponsors the TD Halifax Jazz Festival would approve a warning on the tickets like – “Please be advised rowdy people enjoying themselves may exclude the enjoyment of others including older people, short people, people who like to sit and listen, people in wheelchairs, walkers, scooters…”
Stephen Pate
The assumption that the majority rule is insufficient. If it were enough, we would not have human rights legislation to protect minorities like women (in non-traditional roles), people of different religions, races, colors, origin, age, mental or physical disability. “Majority rules” allow the majority to impose its will as in segregation, racial discrimination, anti-Semitism and exclusion of people who live with disabilities. Inclusion of all citizens is more than at the pleasure of the many. Stepping away from that, common decency and kindness encourages us to seek the benefit of others even in entertainment.
Sarah B. MacDonald
I think I was a little unclear – I meant that Peter’s defense that a “majority were denied the right to see a show they paid to see and expected to see” wasn’t accurate.
Of course, everyone should be able to go to a concert like this. The point I was making is that from a first-hand perspective, and being realistic, everyone would have been able to go and enjoy themselves. Like I said, I sat and had a great time, clear of the beer and dancing. There was lots of space for everyone, maybe just not in the very first row (which is understandable).
jenochej
Wow– you are so far-reaching here it’s ridiculous. You could put that disclaimer on the tickets for almost ANY event, because *adults are allowed to enjoy themselves how they see fit, provided they’re not breaking any rules/laws or endangering anyone*. Jazz East is not the mommy, there to step in and make sure that everyone is getting a fair turn and no one is being left out. Assuming the event was physically accessible for those with disabilities and not discriminatory in that way (as required by law), everything else is up to individual patrons. If someone is being rude and blocking your view, move. Plain and simple.
arthurthecommonhousefly
Maybe a warning about “warning- fuddy duddies in the audience will piss and moan and try to harsh your mellow, so sit on your hands you whipper snappers!”
Stephen Pate
That’s a naïve simplification of what accessibility means. It involves accommodation to the extent that the accommodation is reasonable. Most venue operators understand the difference between letting people with disabilities in the door and accommodating their needs. JazzEast is the venue operator and responsible. I am only referring to people with disabilities here since there are special rules that have been developed.
Stephen Pate
That’s a sort of ageist comment. People are people and deserve respect regardless of their age.
jenochej
So “short people, people who like to sit and listen” are people with disabilities who must be accommodated?
jenochej
You’re really grasping at straws, here. “My argument is flawed, so I’m going to pick at anything remotely discriminatory (whether intended as hyperbole or not) and make the conversation about that instead.”
Stephen Pate
I did not imply that at all and there in no inference like that. I was merely commenting on one group of people who did not like the people who crowded the stage and blocked the view.
Stephen Pate
Drole
Stephen Pate
Ageist comment. It was not a “dance show” – you’re thinking of Olympic Gardens back in the day
arthurthecommonhousefly
OK. I’m a self-hating old man!
You must have a very shallow knowledge of music, and the cultural uses of it.
Just because you can’t dance, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t. You decided to leave early and get your money back. Do you leave every event you pay to go to, and save your pennies by complaining?
Was there a fly in your soup at lunch today?!
lols
Stephen Pate
I post every comment. I love ’em. There are two threads here. The CBC Information Morning story (audio x 2) was on accessibility and other crowd reaction. Barss follow up which is the printed portion is on a non-disability complaint. Two, count ’em two complaints at once. If you focus on Mr. Barss, you’re missing the point. Many people complained, including the people at CBC who interviewed me.
Notwithstanding the differences in opinions, the thread is interesting. Cheers.
Peter Barss
Hey there Dudette jenochej and all the rest of the beautiful people…chill out…I mean like I’m older than you but I’m hip…I can grove on what you say. Those dudes and dudettes digging the music right in front of the stage did totally block the awesome view of Dr. John doing his thing for the cats in the front row and other cats sitting many rows back. You dig so far? Like those dudes and dudettes paid good coin to watch that badass doctor bang on the ivories and all they seen was bunch of bad asses. Where I’m going with this is all the seats were totally filled ‘cause Dr. John is so totally awesome. It’d be totally bogus to tell those old dudes to get it in gear and plant it somewhere else cause somewhere else was nowhere man. Totally no seats left. And some of them had canes and I was totally aware of wheelchairs. I mean, like for sure, they couldn’t make it standing thru the festival. Duh! Maybe it’d be rad if they’d just get off the case and vegged out at home to the max. So dudette, what you say? I mean like what would you do with them?
Stephen Pate
Comments are controlled by Discuss who have their own magic about when they are posted. If asked I approve comments immediately but do take time off for meals, movies and other pass-times. Being polite will get you more houseflies. Thanks for talking about me.
Peter Barss
Hi Ryan Champion–
You’ve misread my argument when you say:
” from the way you ended your paragraph, are you not reflecting that exact behaviour, at least to a point?
“Above all assert your arrogance and self-importance. Remember–you are
special and you are entitled. The concert is for you and you alone. You
are that important.”
And that may be my fault.I meant to suggest that was the attitude of those who crowded the stage and denied many others a view of the stage.
Peter Barss
thatgirl says
“you’re there to enjoy the music and the people. you shouldn’t have several thousand dollars worth of camera equipment. thats against their policy. unless you’re hired by them to record the festival. highly doubtfull”
And just where is this policy stated? There were many people there with cameras. MC, Louise Renault, did request that that no flash be used when taking still shots and that no video be taken.
As soon as Dr. John walked on stage at least a dozen people standing in front of me were shooting video.
You’re right on one count. I was not hired by JazzEast. Even if I was inclined to photograph the festival–which I wasn’t–JazzEast wouldn’t have been able to pay my shooting fees.
Peter Barss
Most of the arguments against my position in this blog introduce facts, opinions, and distortions of reality (lies?) that are not at all relevant to the issue at hand. I am not opposed to dancing, I am not opposed to young people–or old people–having fun.
But when you pay for a ticket to an event and you sit in a seat provided by the event organizers there is an implied understanding between you and the event organizers that you will be able to see and hear the event. This was not the case for the people in the first several rows of seating at the Dr. John festival. Perhaps the solution in the future is a different seating arrangement, a higher stage… But, given the situation this year the solution was simple and the responsibility was squarely on Heather Gibson and her security patrol to move the crowd blocking the view of the stage. There was ample room on three sides of the tent for standing, waving cups of beer in the air, and for dancing–not an ideal solution, but better than telling those in seats to stand at the back of the tent, or as some have suggested telling them if they don’t like it they should stay at home.