Despite Jehovah’s Witness fundamentalist ban of gay marriage, old Supreme Court ruling in their favor used to defeat Prop 8 in California
By Stephen Pate – The California decision by United States District Chief Judge Vaughn R Walker reversed Prop 8’s ban of same-sex or gay marriage in the state.
Part of the legal argument FOR gay marriage comes from a 65 year old Supreme Court ruling that granted freedom of religious expression to Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Walker said that the majority opinion does not eliminate fundamental rights for a minority.
Ironically Jehovah’s Witnesses ban same-sex marriage. They disfellowship or shun any member who openly participates in same-sex acts or relationships.
The reference by Judge Walker to West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette will have the Watchtower Society scratching their heads. “How did we help those wicked sons and daughters of Sodom and Gomorrah?” they will be asking themselves.
It was never the intention of the intolerant Witness religion to grant any freedom of expression outside their own narrow view. Any attempt to practice freedom of expression in act or speech within the ranks of Jehovah’s Witnesses is dealt with KGB-like control and punishment.
In his story How Jehovah’s Witnesses helped kill Prop 8 documentary filmmaker Joel P. Engardio argues that Witnesses played a big part in the Judges decision through the old Supreme Court ruling.
Engardio, who is openly gay himself, argues Walker used the Witness precedent of their Constitutional right to unpopular religious practices to support his order to quash Prop 8. “Will anyone thank Jehovah’s Witnesses for their role in getting the law declared unconstitutional?” USA Today
Like many fundamentalist religious, Jehovah’s Witnesses doctrine is based on literal interpretation of bible texts. In the official Awake magazine article of April 8, 2005 Jehovah’s Witnesses come out strongly against same sex relationships
“Our Creator established rules governing marriage long before governments began regulating the institution. The opening book of the Bible tells us: “A man will leave his father and his mother and he must stick to his wife and they must become one flesh.” (Genesis 2:24)
The well-known Biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah reveals God’s feelings about homosexuality. God declared: “The cry of complaint about Sodom and Gomorrah, yes, it is loud, and their sin, yes, it is very heavy.” (Genesis 18:20) The extent of their sinful depravity at that time was apparent when two guests visited the righteous man Lot. “The men of Sodom . . . surrounded the house, from boy to old man, all the people in one mob. And they kept calling out to Lot and saying to him: ‘Where are the men who came in to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have intercourse with them.’” (Genesis 19:4, 5) The Bible says: “The men of Sodom were bad and were gross sinners against Jehovah.”—Genesis 13:13.
The men became “violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males.” (Romans 1:27) They had “gone out after flesh for unnatural use.” (Jude 7) In countries where homosexual rights campaigns are pervasive, some may object to using the word “unnatural” to describe homosexual behavior. However, is not God the final arbiter when it comes to nature? He commanded his ancient people: “You must not lie down with a male the same as you lie down with a woman. It is a detestable thing.”— Leviticus 18:22.” Awake
The matter is not just personal choice for a Jehovah’s Witness. Any witness who admits to homosexual or other non male-female sex inside a marriage will be disfellowshipped, which is the Jehovah’s Witness version of excommunication.
A disfellowshipped ex-Witness is cut off from the congregation and will be shunned by their own family. They are not allowed to associate any further with their former families or church members.
“If detected, gays and lesbian (Witnesses) who refuse to remain celibate are expected to repent of their actions and to refrain from same-sex behavior in the future. Those who refuse are almost inevitably disfellowshipped. The WTS expects all of its members to agree with and follow all of the requirements of the organization, which are based on the WTS’ interpretation of the Bible.”
“While disfellowshipped, fellow members are required to shun him/her completely, avoiding all contact. If the disfellowshiped person is a family member, then they are treated normally within the family, except that they are made to understand that their actions are disapproved of. There is no discussion about church matters in their presence. This can have a devastating effect on a person whose entire religious, family and social life were grounded in the Society.” Jehovah’s Witnesses & homosexuality behavior
The confidential guide for local elders to determine who should be excommunicated or disfellowshipped states that same sex acts are dealt with in a “judicial hearing”, the official process of disfellowshipping.
The number of sexual acts that will result in disfellowshipping is quite broad including “oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, [sic] fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality”. Evidence of immoral sexual activity can be as little as “the accused stayed all night…with a known homosexual…under improper circumstances, is acceptable proof.” Jehovah’s Witnesses & homosexuality behavior
While making his arguments, I wonder if Engardio is hoping for some relaxed religious tolerance from Jehovah’s Witnesses that would allow him acceptance with his Jehovah’s Witness family. That would be a “faint hope”.
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matt
If you knew Engardio’s history, you would be aware that he has not been shunned by his family. He never pretended to be a JW. I grew up a JW and never pretended either, though I was never homosexual. AT the age of 30 I decided I did want to be a JW. The point is that people who lie and claim to be JW’s and then practice or promote things we find unacceptable are shunned if they wish to continue doing these things.
Contrary to popular misinformation, disfellowshipping is not arbitrary. Naturally people who are pissed off because they were DF’d would like you to think so, but elders do not like doing it. It causes pain in the congregation and in the family.
Stephen Pate
If he wasn’t baptized JW then his family wouldn’t shun him. It’s only after you are baptized that you can be disfellowshipped. So get baptized and risk shunning, stay unbaptized and do your own thing with seeming impunity. It’s an interesting technical rule that allows some people to slip under the wire.
You are making up the age 30 rule. Children of JW’s are encouraged to get baptized – which means committed – as early as 12 or 13.
That is assumed to be the age when most people can make some adult-like commitment to a religion. It parallels the Roman Catholic confirmation or Jewish Bar Mitzvah for age and confirmation of one’s faith. JWs don’t have infant baptism, circumcision as a child rite that secures their religious salvation.
JW parents spend 10 years of bible study grooming their children for the baptism. The pressure at puberty is both religious, social and practical. The parents want it, other children are getting baptized around the same age. Teenage JW’s are socially segregated into “baptized” and “non-baptized” with baptized ones being safe for friends, dating etc.
A teenager who isn’t baptized gets special attention from elders to find out why by age 14 to 16. Pronouncements are made about the end of the world, destruction at Armageddon and other religious scare tactics.
Once baptized, any JW is expected to stay within the boundaries of the faith. Any baptized JW can be disfellowshipped without any restriction on their age.
Disfellowshipping is routinely carried out to make sure the congregation is “clean”. JW’s spend an inordinate amount of time gossiping about each other to determine if someone is “weak in the truth”, the colloquial for varying from the dogma.
Two single boys or girls living together in their mid-20s would be suspected of being gay and hounded and spied upon. Any conversation that questions doctrine is reported. Fear of being ostracized themselves from God and the congregation keeps people spying on each other.
William Belle
An excellent article, well written, well researched. And most of all, it is hilarious! Good work Stephan. This very much reminds me of watching the Daily Show with Jon Stewart. He reports something which unto itself is quite absurd then Jon leans into the camera and adds, “I don’t even have to make up a joke.”
tom sheepandgoats
The reference by Judge Walker to West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette will have the Watchtower Society scratching their heads. “How did we help those wicked sons and daughters of Sodom and Gomorrah?” they will be asking themselves.
No, it will not.
Any attempt to practice freedom of expression in act or speech within the ranks of Jehovah’s Witnesses is dealt with KGB-like control and punishment.
You are not familiar with the KGB, are you?
It was never the intention of the intolerant Witness religion to grant any freedom of expression outside their own narrow view.
Nor was it their intention to restrict any other group from benefiting from legal precedent they’ve established.
Unlike many groups that stand for something, Jehovah’s Witnesses views, on homosexuality or anything else, are theirs alone. They “impose” them upon themselves, just as many organizations impose their own rules upon themselves. But they don’t try to impose them upon society in general. They don’t attempt to force others by writing their views into law, much less resorting to violence. Mr. Engardio has stated before that Jehovah’s Witnesses provide an excellent example, perhaps our last hope, of how groups with strongly polarized views can yet get along. Frankly, I am much impressed that he can be so objective, since, as you pointed out, JW beliefs conflict with his orientation. Most people determine their stand on various issues solely on the basis of their own immediate benefit.
http://carriertom.typepad.com/sheep_and_goats/2006/10/wheatandweeds_d.html
Stephen Pate
What could be more transparent about Engardio’s benefit: he is promoting himself and his film.
The film itself is intellectually dishonest in the portrayal of JW’s as a benign religion that supports free speech and civil/human rights.
The Watch Tower Society does not tolerate freedom of speech, they only tolerate repetition of the dogma or mantra. By publishing religious hatred against groups like gays and lesbians and denouncing them as evil they are playing the card of religious hatred. They don’t keep their views to themselves. The quotation is from the Awake magazine which 5 million JW’s try to plug door-to-door on a weekly basis.
tom sheepandgoats
I didn’t say they keep their views to themselves. I said they don’t attempt to force others to observe them, through legislative or even violent means. Many groups are unwilling to let it go at that – instead, they feel free to go beyond the mere execise of free speech.
By publishing religious hatred against groups like gays and lesbians and denouncing them as evil
What are they going to do? They’re a Bible organization, and they don’t feel they have the authority to change the scriptures. I don’t think they harp on it. I even think they’re sympathetic to those who feel a different sexual orientation, (as portions of the following link may show) (and yes, I know, you will disagree) but they are bound to represent scripture, or else change their mandate entirely. It does make it very challenging for any within their ranks who feel their own orientation is gay.
http://tinyurl.com/3xz62uv
tom sheepandgoats
As for Engardio plugging his own film for financial benefit…..well, maybe. But why make such a film in the first place, one that runs directly counter to his immediate interests? Why not use his data and make a film bashing Jehovah’s Witnesses? God knows it would find a larger audience than one praising them.
Stephen Pate
Engardio is definately an advocate for freedom of speech and the Jehovah’s Witness court record on winning those rights in the United States is strong. The film however white-washes the sect as something between benign and wonderful, totally ignoring the devastating effect they have on family integration when not all members are JW. A more balanced approach would seem more appropriate.
Robert Willis
Interestingly, there are laws in certain jurisdictions, still “on the books”, that make sodomy (an act mostly perpetrated by male gays) illegal. In fighting for our constitutional rights to practice our faith the way we see fit (i.e., scripturally), Witnesses have also paved the way for other so-called minority religions/groups to do the same. The Supreme Court decision does not mean that we ‘inadvertently’ support/condone same-sex marriages. If we did, we would not be called Jehovah’s Witnessses. We DO NOT tolerate behavior contrary to Jehovah’s standards as communicated in the Bible. Should anyone practicing anything contrary to God’s standards (homosexuality, adultery, or other sexually deviant acts) want to be a part of the true Christian congregation, he/she would have to conform his/her acts to God’s viewpoint as found in the Bible.
If Jehovah views homosexuality as wrong, who are WE to say that he’s wrong? As his Witnesses we preach and teach a message that is highly unpopular in an otherwise excessively permissive world. We DO NOT, however, force people to live as we do. That is contrary to His wishes and purpose.
Additionally, Jehovah God loves humans. He sent his son to benefit the WORLD, not just a particular segment of it. Jehovah God DOES NOT enjoy, condone, tolerate, or have love for any of the wicked acts that humans engage in- which includes acts of homosexuality. I, as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, do not really care about laws that support or restrict the lifestyle of gays. Homosexuality has existed long before the U.S. Constitution. So, regardless of whatever laws our so-called leaders establish, there is only one answer to the question of homosexuality. Just as in Sodom and Gomorrah, so today. Jehovah will take action to eliminate any human insistent on living contrary to His laws and principles (Witness and non-Witness alike).
Robert Willis
Ironically, it’s not homosexuals that threaten the sanctity of marriage, it’s holiness, it’s spirit. It’s heterosexuals- their adultery, abuse, and other silliness. Man has enacted laws to get others to comply with what they think is socially acceptable. Murder, rape, theft, assault. Yet, people STILL commit acts that the general populace find reprehensible. Laws against gay marriage will suffer the same. Make it illegal, and gays will find a way. The problem here is one of self-determination and the balance between that and the country’s/state’s authority. DO the courts have the right to determine how we are to live, who we can love/marry? DOES society? No. If that were the case, then inter-racial marriage would STILL be illegal. I DO NOT support that particular lifestyle. But I do not support a governing body telling its citizens how to live their lives, especially since that particular lifestyle has not been found to be illegal, or unconstitutional. If society wants to ban gay marriage, then make that lifestyle illegal/unconstitutional. However, if that is done, then the same should be done with adultery, pre-marital sex, etc. THAT won’t be done, because some of those writing the laws are sexual deviants themselves, but maybe not gay/lesbian. To those of the ‘Christian’ right or left- stop gay-bashing, and set examples to follow, like Jesus did. Maybe folks will be more willing to follow your fine Bible-based example if you spend your time helping rather than hurting. Condemning folks to a non-existent hell does not help. Where, in the Bible, did Jesus do that?
Tru Agape
The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses uses fear and prejudice to promote their anit-homosexual teachings. If they were just as committed to unraveling the Scriptures, the history, and the Greek concerning the supposed homosexuality references as they are about the trinity and the hell doctrine, then their anti-gay propaganda would have to scripturally cease. But instead, the Governing Body is purposefully elementary about the topic and goes no further than what the “biblical translations” convey to fuel their prejudice. In reality, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not take the biblical view with regards to homosexuality, they hypocritically take the Catholic View along with the Catholic’s invention of the term “sodomite”. Ultimately, the GB use the majority’s disgust against gays to further the fear in looking behind the prejudice.
I HOWEVER WILL NOT KEEP SILENT AND WILL NOT BE AFRAID TO CHALLENGE THE MAN-MADE LIES, NAMELY THAT:
-HOMOSEXUALITY PLAYED A PART IN SODOM’S DESTRUCTION
-THAT LEVITICUS AND ROMANS 1 ARE ADDRESSING HOMOSEXUALITY
-THAT ARSENOKOITES=SODOMITE=HOMOSEXUAL
Tru Agape
Ironically, the fear the GB uses to promote their anti-homosexual view is decorated with the idea that the JW is merely wanting to please Jehovah, and that it is love for Jehovah and HIS “faithful and discrete slave” that will compel a Witness to adhere to the GB’s anti-homosexual teachings. The Socity’s lack of openness regarding those wih same-sex attractions helps to fuel the shame and the fear in preempting a disscusion that would disect the GB’s position on homosexuality. And when you add the fear of possibly being charged with promoting “independent thinking”, to the mix, the idea of anyone questioning the GB’s anti-homosexual teachings is lessoned, hence giving the GB the power to radicate its own prejudice upon the topic.
BUT I WILL NOT KEEP QUIET!!
Leroy H. Jensen
Interesting??? Does anyone know how I can contact Steven Pate? A friend sent me an article on Jehovah’s witnesses and same sex marriage. Didn’t care for the article but noticed he had used a picture with me and 3 other people standing in it at a kingdom hall. I would like to know where he got that picture and who authorized it’s use. You can contact me at leroyhjensen@reagan.com
Daro Weilburg
Mr. Pate you are so far off the beaten path it is pathetic…Why blame the JWs for instruction that the Bible clearly provides? Why not curse Jehovah…oh, but wait! You are cursing Jehovah…the accepted English name of God for over 600 years. Actually the JWs do not stone people for committing deviate sexual acts like the Israelites did under the Mosaic Covenant. You presented the case of the JWs from your deviate perspective. Why not present it from Jehovah’s clean, chaste and righteous perspective. (1 Corinthians 6:9, 10) 9 “Or do you not know that unrighteous people will not inherit God’s Kingdom? Do not be misled. Those who are sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, men who submit to homosexual acts, men who practice homosexuality, 10 thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, and extortioners will not inherit God’s Kingdom.” The Bible calls homosexuals unrighteous people. That is the extent of it. Jehovah God Almighty used to have homosexuals stoned to death…now he just says stop it or you will be destroyed at Armageddon…which means that they will not inherit the kingdom of God or that kingdom’s benefits. If you or one like you wants to be a homosexual…JWs got no problem with that…But, you can neither get baptized not can you remain a JW if you or one like you continues to act upon the perversion. That Mr. Pate is scriptural not a doctrinal tradition…it is unequivocally biblical. JWs do not judge the homosexual…you judge the JWs…We love all people…we do not appreciate what some of them do and will not tolerate their doing it within our organization. The government will never try to force the JWs to accept same sex marriage, because the JWs do not hire outside the organization and do not pay wages, because Jehovah will not allow the homosexuals to request acceptance. It really is that simple. When the UN destroys the false religions…the JWs, the only true religion will be left…Why? Because we don’t get political. We JWs don’t care what the Governments do…we don’t vote…go figure huh? We answer to Jehovah! Jesus is our King and he don’t need votes! The homosexuals will answer to Jehovah as will all unrighteous people…not to me or you.
Stephen Pate
What picture are you referring to? What story?
David Morrell
While I am not a Jehovah Witness for reasons that are tangential to this topic, I am well studied to know that their policy is correct. Sex outside of a love between a man and a woman is not blessed by the holy spirit, and thus becomes of the flesh, which is obviously against God. It is that we are in such a dark spirited time that people have a difficult time discerning this. It is one thing to not attack a person who may not be able to see clearly about this, it is another to be forced by a government to condone such an act of the flesh which thus aids and abets, thus ends up hurting those who are misguided.